Joe, 46, Brighton
Occupation Director at a kids’s charity
Voting document Not tribal; leans in direction of essentially the most progressive native candidate
Amuse bouche Was a bingo caller in mega-halls – 3,000 folks, all taking it very significantly
Gabriel, late 40s, East Sussex
Occupation Trainer
Voting document Labour
Amuse bouche He was escorted out of Washington DC at gunpoint by officers and plain-clothed secret brokers. He had been cleansing his enamel in a public fountain near Capitol Hill
For starters
Gabriel I believed he seemed like a Silicon Valley informal/north London mature boho. About my age.
Joe Actually heat and pleasant – we fell into straightforward dialog immediately. I was struck by his accent: he’s been away from Australia for 25 years, however it’s nonetheless fairly robust.
Gabriel I had firecracker cauliflower, espelette fries, which is a fancy manner of saying spicy tacky chips. And roast squash. The place was improbable.
Joe I had bread, anchovies and hen.
The massive beef
Gabriel The massive subject was punishment – I work in faculties, he works with a younger folks’s charity. He thinks punishment doesn’t repair the problem, so due to this fact it’s of restricted worth. I mentioned: “I’m on the frontline, I’m coping with children on a regular basis – there’s a behaviour disaster in faculties.” Lecturers are leaving. We had 15 who left on the finish of the final college yr, some with 20 or extra years of educating, with out one other job in entrance of them. That’s how determined they have been. I used to be attempting to clarify that our fingers are tied. There aren’t any exclusions any extra. The deterrent must exist, there should be penalties.
Joe I felt very strongly that that’s simply coping with the symptom, reasonably than the issue. If we wish a greater society, it’s actually vital to consider why persons are behaving on this manner. If we over-focus on dangerous behaviour and punishment, it turns into about compliance, reasonably than folks taking account of their very own behaviour and wanting to alter it.
Gabriel We touched on corporal punishment, and he mentioned, aghast: “You wouldn’t be for that?” And I mentioned: “I’m not 100% certain I wouldn’t be. If there was one thing there as an emblem, mainly unused, I’m open to the thought.”
Joe There are lifelong penalties to beating kids, and it’s not encouraging kids to study constructive behaviour. It’s simply saying: “Don’t get caught.”
Sharing plate
Gabriel I mentioned: “It’s mainly that the nation’s broke, and the normalisation of dangerous behaviour is continual.”
Joe We each felt that issues have been worse within the UK than comparable nations, and we nailed that right down to inequality – what’s modified in the previous few years? How will we differ from different nations?
Gabriel I nonetheless suppose plenty of issues are used as an excuse for dangerous behaviour, however we did agree that there are real financial drivers. We’ve obtained 40% particular instructional wants in our faculty. I’ve little question that poverty has obtained one thing to do with it.
Joe Many techniques within the UK are damaged, whether or not that’s justice, schooling, care. In each space, we’d like higher deal with early intervention and prevention reasonably than reacting to disaster.
For afters
Gabriel I’m a historian; economically and culturally, I feel we’ve peaked, we’re going backwards now. We have been speaking about AI, and he quoted any person saying it was 50:50 whether or not it could be good or dangerous for humanity, and I mentioned: “I do know human nature – historical past factors to us in all probability not taking the appropriate street, simply because we’re so myopic and short-term.”
Joe Gabriel was very apprehensive about know-how, social media, the web, cell phones, AI – he noticed all of them as largely a pressure for dangerous. I used to be extra ambivalent, in that they signify dangers for us but in addition prospects. Sure there are threats – AI deliberately attempting to destroy the human race, or dangerous actors, or the “paperclip concept” of unintended penalties from runaway AI. However the results might simply be good: it’s about political will.
Takeaways
Gabriel We have been there for 4 hours, and we parted saying: “We haven’t completed this dialog.” We left it on excellent phrases.
Joe Time went actually shortly. We swapped numbers, it could be nice to communicate.
Extra reporting: Kitty Drake
Gabriel and Joe ate at The Coal Shed in Brighton
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